Comments on: How to learn a new PHP framework

By: rashid

rashid — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:34:53 +0000

hello mother fuckers and i want to fuck ur sister would u provide me the rate list according to ur ur younger sister

By: Frankos

Frankos — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:23:01 +0000

Try writing your own framework.. You will definitely become a better PHP programmer. It makes you realize the advantages of:

Breaking your website into modules.
Why object orientated programming is so powerful.
Why HTML just gets in the way.
Why writing forms, form validation and using POST’s are just a repetitive boring process.
Why having your own framework gives you the alter mate control.

I don’t have to write any HTML at all now, the framework objects do it for me.

By: terry chay

terry chay — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:29:40 +0000

I like this idea (doing the same app in different frameworks). In fact I think Iâ€™ll try it. I only did hello world and then jumped to twitter-like appâ€¦ which was a problem.

By: Stuart

Stuart — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:51:48 +0000

First off, I agree with Bob that you need to know how to do what the framework does or you risk serious confusion. An example: with the Zend Framework you can populate form fields from a database very easily (literally just $form->populate($data) assuming your table keys match the form field names). However… put a select element into that table and it won’t get populated. You need to know that the framework expects an array to populate a select which means you need to be able to understand and take care of that on your own. In my instance that meant making a database call from within my form’s (which extends Zend_Form_Abstract) init method, flatten the array (I didn’t want a multi-dimensional array), assign the value to the key (so that I had array(1=>1,2=>2) rather than array(0=>1, 1=>2) because the key would be interpreted as the select’s value while the value would be displayed and I needed them to be equal) and then pass that array to the select element. The framework doesn’t help with this at all (and there is nothing in the manual about this… that is ZF’s biggest shrotcoming in my opinion) so you need to be able to figure it out yourself.

@Silvio – I personally prefer the Zend Framework. It is flexible and let’s me work in a way that is more familiar to me… makes “learning the framework” less of a chore.

@Alan – I agree. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a tutorial or set of examples that went in depth very much at all on something like this. They usually start of with “We’ll make a super simple…” (i.e. basically useless), have a “one, two skip a few” set of instructions or use some extremely programmer specific techniques that make what should be “standard” into a pretzle of “why’d he do it that way? Wha…?”

By: Alan Pinstein

Alan Pinstein — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:48:37 +0000

Stuart definitely has the right idea. It’s that exact set of questions which led me to write my own framework 4 years ago instead of using an existing one, because there was no framework that I could easily *tell* did all of these things well 4 years ago due to lack of documentation and examples.

In fact, the “home” page about my phocoa framework lists exactly that set of questions a solution areas. (Except translation; haven’t tackled that one yet).

It would be nice if there was a “standard” evaluation example and all of the PHP frameworks had a tutorial on that exact project. This would make it much easier for people to compare the frameworks to see which framework’s style and architecture best suited them.

By: Silvio

Silvio — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:14:32 +0000

Stuart, what PHP framework you think implements this features? (or near)

By: Marc Gear

Marc Gear — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:37:38 +0000

Stuart,
I wanted to get away from a list of responsibilities that a framework should handle, and create a set of simple no-brainer apps that would allow a user to explore the framework and its intricacies and differences from what else is available.

Personally I find working from the abstract lists of functionality offered by frameworks in most framework documentation a very slow way of learning. I believe that the best way is to build real apps, exploring the documentation and features of the code as you go. As you’ll appreciate, building the apps I suggest will cover most of the areas you mention.

By: bob

bob — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:20:03 +0000

Frameworks are only good if you know how to do the same work without the framework. Just thought I’d throw that in there.

By: Phillip

Phillip — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 01:17:42 +0000

Stuart is spot on. I recommend removing your weak points 1-4 and putting in Stuart’s points 1-7. Rushi, AJAX is a client side technology. PHP frameworks should support all the AJAX libraries as templates can output XML and JSON as easily as HTML. Choosing an AJAX library is a whole other independent subject. Translation is complex and no framework in any language has it perfect. I would actually push Stuart’s point 4 up to the top of his list as it affects the ability to generate quality content. If it’s too restrictive and you have to start significantly modifying it then you may as well have written your own framework in the first place.

Phillip.

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